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Previous: Oven interface and display | Main | Next: 99 cent+ store
June 8, 2006 12:03 AM
Broken: Shower in the Waldorf Astoria hotel
A reader named Anthony points out:
I was staying at the Waldorf Astoria hotel in New York over the weekend. The shower knob in the hotel bathroom is broken in many ways.
I walked in the shower and read the directions below it, "pull knob."
So I did, but nothing happened, it wouldn't even budge. After realizing that the knob was already pulled, I pushed it in (if it was already pulled, why was the water not flowing?) and tried pulling it out again.
Still nothing. After doing this several times, water finally started flowing out of the faucet. Then, the water started flowing out of the shower head.
It turns out that there is a small pin to pull to get the water flowing out of the shower head which was already pulled out as well. After pushing the pin in and pulling it out a few times, the water finally started flowing.
Now for the final broken part of this shower, the temperature. You'll notice in the picture that, above the line with the 'C' and 'H' on the panel is an arrow etched into the face of the shower knob. I figured that the arrow would serve as the temperature indicator, so I turned the 'H' under the arrow. Low and behold, I got cold water.
I turned the knob and put the 'H' further under the etched arrow and got colder water. After tinkering with it for a minute, I realized that you get hot water by turning it counter-clock wise and cold water by turning it clockwise, which aligns the arrow with the opposite letter of the desired temperature.
I had to place the 'C' under the arrow to get hot water! For an expensive hotel, you would think they could design their shower to be more usable.
The temperature selection would probably be simpler if they removed the arrow at the top. It serves no purpose but to confuse. The arrows on the knob itself between the H and C are adequate.
Shower Controls are NOTORIOUS for having bad bad design, there never seems to be a good represenation (H-C Arrows, Red and Blue markings, handled nobs with arrows and labels (can't tell which direction for what)) to match the actual behavior of the information (the water temperature)... which then does not provide adequate decision support for the user!
What if ... bear with me ... what if there were TWO knobs, one for hot water and one for cold? And the user could then adjust the mix of the water by increasing or decreasing the appropriate knob? It's a crazy idea, but it just might work!
Seriously, the all-in-one shower control has yet to be implemented well. Is it just a style preference, or is there a reason why it's better/faster/cheaper than separate h/c controls?
This broken experience is broken...today's the 8th isn't it? Or should I wait until tomorrow to read this?
Shower/tub controls are, I believe, required to be of the single handle variety. Building code/law did this about 20(I think) years ago because with the two handled fixture, little kids and older folks, as well as normal people of rock like comprehension, could scald themselves easily, even die like a lobster.
"After tinkering with it for a minute, I realized that you get hot water by turning it counter-clock wise and cold water by turning it clockwise"
This is how every shower I have seen works.
well, you could also scald yourself if your turned the handle to "cold" and expected cold water, and boiling hot water came out!
this is a VERY broken design, but isint as bad as some things I have seen in hotels (like those self flushing toilets that never work when needed!)
I agree with Marla's idea.
It is a proven design, and it works.
And it is VERY diffucult to scald one's self in modern times, anyway, because most water heaters have automatic temperature control that keeps the water below 120 degrees fahrenheit.
god forbid it should mess up, though.
like I said
BROKEN!
Uh, yeah, on the knob it says counterclock wise for hot, and clockwise for cold, so that part isn't broken.
All they have to do is remove that little arrow indicator on the base of the fixture, and then it wouldn't be confusing. The problem here arose from a conflict between two of Anthony's mental models of how it might work, one based on the idea of gradations on a knob lining up with a stationary mark to achieve a certain value or level, the second based on the idea of arrows showing two directions of moving something
to achieve two opposing results or a mixture.
Was the initial water supply problems caused by friction between the center pin and the outer knob?
Reed
"After doing this several times, water finally started flowing out of the faucet. "
Huh? the knob in the shower operates the faucet? I wonder what you have to do to make the tiolet flush? And as sdgsdgsd noted, all faucets turn clockwise for cold- In a lux hotel that gets many foreign travelers, the instructions should be clearer.
"Huh? the knob in the shower operates the faucet? I wonder what you have to do to make the tiolet flush?" - Arthur Dent
Most showers have a faucet and a shower...
"What if ... bear with me ... what if there were TWO knobs, one for hot water and one for cold? And the user could then adjust the mix of the water by increasing or decreasing the appropriate knob? It's a crazy idea, but it just might work!" - Marla Erwin
Our apartment's bathrooms came with these sort of controls. They were fiendishly hard to control. One day my father just decided to take it off and install a regular rotating handle faucet. It's been much easier to use the bathtub ever since.
Unless you stayed in the room I was in, then this is broken for all bathrooms, not just this room.
But to me, the two-tap thing is a broken design as well. All my experiences with them is that you only have to touch (not even turn) the hot tap to go from freezing to boiling.
Not Broken!
This device is Moen's "Wat-R-Savr" shower control. It operates on the theory that 23% of people will give up trying to make it work, resulting in a 23% water savings and significant reduction in energy costs. The other devices in the "Wat-R-Savr" line include the Confus-a-flush toilet (you must remove six bolts in order to reach the flush lever), and the "Mystery faucet" (which operates by voice command--the word "off" makes it turn on, and the word "reverse" makes it turn off).
I know this is sort of getting off topic, but I have to add to the one vs. two faucet knobs discussion. Either one of those work just fine for me, but an old friend of mine lived in a really old house (with original plumbing, I'm guessing), and the bathroom sink had not just two knobs, but two faucets as well! For one sink! So you had to turn on both the hot and cold and sort of move your hands back and forth between the burning hot and freezing cold streams of water. It was ridiculously broken.
Well, most 'Non-Moen' type temperature controls (like 'Delta Powers') models work that way. Most of the time it's used to limit the temperature, but just don't read the labels.
It's just like on those ceiling fan controls, where all the way counterclockwise is high and clockwise on the other end is low, people just read the label and think if they point the knob's arrow at the word 'HIGH' on the cover/plate it'll be the max. Doesn't work that way.
"[...] and the bathroom sink had not just two knobs, but two faucets as well! For one sink! So you had to turn on both the hot and cold and sort of move your hands back and forth between the burning hot and freezing cold streams of water. It was ridiculously broken." - ambrocked
Most houses over here seem to have the same thing - was this house in the US or Europe?
"Shower/tub controls are, I believe, required to be of the single handle variety. Building code/law did this about 20(I think) years ago because with the two handled fixture, little kids and older folks, as well as normal people of rock like comprehension, could scald themselves easily, even die like a lobster."
Nope, I have 3 levers; hot, cold, and shower/bath. None are marked, you just have to remember which, and my house is not over 20 yrs old.
"... the bathroom sink had not just two knobs, but two faucets as well! For one sink! So you had to turn on both the hot and cold and sort of move your hands back and forth between the burning hot and freezing cold streams of water..."
Yup. I've got that in my basement bathroom (Canada, 80y old house, but new basement). I've got the back & forth motion down pat.
For those who don't want to have to fiddle with knobs, systems like asbestos was talking about exist. The only problem is that they cost ALOT of money(in the thousands I think).
For the rest of us it is fairly simple. Play with the knobs (making sure that the shower head is pointed at the wall) untill you find the right temperature, then get in the shower/bath.
That said however, I agree that the design of this tap could be clearer amd easier to use.
Also I wonder if the tap was not running because of some kind of water saving feature which automatically turns off the water if it is left on too long.
"Nope, I have 3 levers; hot, cold, and shower/bath. None are marked, you just have to remember which, and my house is not over 20 yrs old."
Maybe its a local thing- state-wide or specific counties in my area.
Not broken. Not broken at ALL. Every water faucet in the ENTIRE WORLD works exactly the same way. Left = Hot, Right = Cold. Left nobs, or left (counter clockwise) turns will ALWAYS get you hot water. Right nobs or right (clockwise) turns will ALWAYS get you cold water. The only time this will not be the case is if someone hooked up your plumbing backwards.
As far as your water flow problems, that was also likely a user error as well.
"Not broken. Not broken at ALL. Every water faucet in the ENTIRE WORLD works exactly the same way. Left = Hot, Right = Cold. Left nobs, or left (counter clockwise) turns will ALWAYS get you hot water. Right nobs or right (clockwise) turns will ALWAYS get you cold water. The only time this will not be the case is if someone hooked up your plumbing backwards."
Wow. The world is just not that absolute. I just experienced a similar thing at a hotel, but it was the lavatory faucet, rather than the shower. Water lines hooked up wrong, or whatever, but the single lever faucet was counter-intuitive. The room next to mine was the same way.
Plus, you are just being obstinate if you can't agree that the etched arrow on the flange confuses matters. Perhaps someone with poor vision, not wearing their glasses, would notice the most prominent markings on the fixture - the etched triangle, the letters H and C, and the line between those letters. The little direction arrows may not be so easy to see.
"you just ignored the posts above you, you are an idiot"
No, I did not. There is not a single post above me stating the fact that all left knobs or counter clockwise turns will net you hot water and all clockwise turns or right knobs will net you cold water. Not a single post.
"Wow. The world is just not that absolute."
Oh yes, it absolutely is.
Visit that website, you might learn something. There are international standards for plumbing. Commercial buildings have to follow them, no matter where in the world they are. Why? Because it would suck to visit a forgien country and get scalded by hot water because their faucets are different.
"Plus, you are just being obstinate if you can't agree that the etched arrow on the flange confuses matters."
It doesn't confuse matters, because it can safely be ignored, because international building codes DECREE that all faucets be set up the same way.
User error. Pure and simple.
Shower knobs seem always broken.
Reading this reminded me that the one thing folks show you when you visit their home is how to use the shower.
wiglyworm sets up an interesting propostion for us: never read instructions, gauges, arrows, or diagrams. simply fiddle around until you figure it out. don't know how to drive a car? just get in and start pushing stuff. if you don't know, it's your fault. your computer crashed? hit a bunch of buttons until the right thing happens. shower faucet has incorrect directions? it's your fault, because you should KNOW that every shower is supposed to work the same way. if you don't, then you are obviously not a big enough geek to go check out the international shower standards web site, as wiglyworm has so gratefully done for us.
this makes life so much easier. i don't have to worry about providing clear instructions to users anymore! hooray!
wigly worm says: "Not broken. Not broken at ALL. Every water faucet in the ENTIRE WORLD works exactly the same way. Left = Hot, Right = Cold. Left nobs, or left (counter clockwise) turns will ALWAYS get you hot water. Right nobs or right (clockwise) turns will ALWAYS get you cold water. The only time this will not be the case is if someone hooked up your plumbing backwards.
You know, maybe i'm as big a geek as wiglyworm, but i got curious and checked a couple of sites where major brands sell their wares. it's pretty obvious the standard he speaks of above is not being applied consistently.
here's one of but many examples: http://tinyurl.com/zu6lj
whoops, wiglyworm. you were so adamant that everything works a certain way. how will you wiggle out of that?
:)
"Not broken. Not broken at ALL. Every water faucet in the ENTIRE WORLD works exactly the same way. Left = Hot, Right = Cold."
Ahem. I beg to differ. Your comment is broken, because I have a shower that works the opposite way of that. And when I was in preschool, the only thing I remember is that the water faucets worked the opposite way as well. So don't make generalizations like that, they're usually wrong.
"Ahem. I beg to differ. Your comment is broken, because I have a shower that works the opposite way of that. And when I was in preschool, the only thing I remember is that the water faucets worked the opposite way as well. So don't make generalizations like that, they're usually wrong."
#1, I don't trust your memory from preschool. What a bizaar thing to remember. :)
#2, Your house is a private residence, not a public building.
So, I'll admit. I mispoke when I said "every faucet in the entire world". What I should have said, and what I thought was clear given the subject matter, and the other information given in my post, and which I will now spell out for you, is this:
"Every faucet of every public building in the world must comply with international plumbing codes, which require for left to be hot and right to be cold. Now, houses don't need to follow these codes (technically they do, but no one is going to come into your house and inspect it, and no one is going to care if it doesn't follow the codes, obscure as they are), so you may have a faucet that varies, but public buildings MUST, so you will never find a faucet other than described above. If you do, let the building manager know, because their construction crew installed their plumbing backwards, and they are actually violating an international building code by doing so. Of course, people are human so mistakes like this will happen, but they are the exception, not the rule."
Is that better for all you literalists?
"Every faucet of every public building in the world must comply with international plumbing codes..."
...eem but NOPE! Sorry dude. And, just to get it off the table all at once, Santa doesn't exist either. uh... Life is a bitch.
"...eem but NOPE!"
So I'm saying one thing, and providing links to the organizations that craft these standards, and you're just saying "no" and then denegrating to personal attacks, and I'm supposed to take your word for it?
Okay.
"Most houses over here seem to have the same thing - was this house in the US or Europe?"
It was in the US. =)
wiglyworm is probably right about international standards, but the thing is that they usually don't carry much legal weight in different countries. They don't force the hotels to make the faucets a certain way, except for the single knob in a shower rule, which is a rule, but only for public buildings like hotels and such. Our house is like VNet's. Three knobs, one hot, one cold, and one to control flow between faucet and shower head. And they are not like bruzie's where they are super sensitive. The only problem is it takes 3 seconds to get a temp response, so if you turn on cold water and then frantically turn up hot water, you get more cold water for 3 secs and then very hot water.
no catfights in the guestbook
he's probably right, most hotels never fix their shower heads and always make operating it extremly confusing. i was once in a hotel that had one of those heads that have 6 different selections and the selector knob had broken from the mechanism inside and it was never fixed. but the damn cleaning people misaligned the selector indicator every freakin day!
I realize this post is probably dead but I just had to comment on a few things.
1) The center arrow on the outside rim of the faucet is supposed to represent sort of a middle ground. Turn the faucet so that the H and C are equally centered below it and equal distributions of hot and cold come out of the faucet. This can be confusing because when installed people dont often get the knob on perfecly aligned to where its supposed to be.
2) The H and C are always located on the side which marks the direction you should turn the knob to make it either hotter or colder, respectively. H on the left means turn it left to get hot, etc.
3)I've been to many countries, from India to Italy and have only encountered the opposite on a few occasions and the reason I know its not common for them to be reversed is because I actually notice that they are reversed. If they were different all the time we would always have to think before we turned on a faucet. Additionally, some of the times that it was reversed it was still marked as H on the left and C on the right but the plumbing was reversed and it came out backwards.
4)Someone mentioned that the Waldorf should be more sensitive to foreign visitors. Now, I don't disagree with this but to take in account all foreign visitors would be very difficult. In Italian Caldo means hot and C could easily be confused. If one side of the faucet said both H and C to accomodate multiple languages everyone would be lost. Unless there was a giant chart in every bathroom with a rundown of all the different words for hot and cold.In fact I spent 4 months in Italy and even there the faucets said H and C, as if it were and international standard. Either that or they say nothing at all.
It seems to me that this sort of faucet shouldn't be all that confusing. It's pretty straight forward to me. I cant think of a house or apartment that I have ever lived in that didnt have either this kind of faucet or H equals left and C equals cold. I've also lived all over the country so it's not about where you live either.
Sorry so long, just had to put in my 2 cents. Or maybe it was my 80 cents, lol.
Comments on this entry are closed
Previous: Oven interface and display | Main | Next: 99 cent+ store
First.
And I still don't understand how the water WON'T flow if everything necessary to making the water flow is done already. The water supply line must somehow be broken.
Can't really explain the H\C problem though. Just a stupid design, I guess.
Posted by: realsaddam at June 8, 2006 07:47 AM