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Previous: Bad parking in Yahoo lot | Main | Next: San Francisco traffic sign
July 20, 2005 12:03 AM
Broken: Men's room sign in Braille
Tom Davidson writes:
This pic is from the National Botanical Gardens in Washington, DC. The public restrooms there have unmarked doors, but have enormous signs hanging from the ceiling just in front of the doors to identify them. Someone realized that this might cause a problem for the blind, so they helpfully added braille to the sign.
Unfortunately, there are two problems here: the ceilings are around fifteen feet tall, which means that the lowest point of the sign is still more than eight feet above the ground. And even if a blind giant were able to feel the bottom of the sign while looking for the restroom, he still wouldn't benefit from the braille -- which is just printed directly onto the sign; it's not embossed or raised in any way.
wow, if you could make something uber-broken with a massive combo of little broken things this would be it....
please someone explain how thats NOT broken, I think this may be the first thing in a while everyone can agree on...
please someone explain how thats NOT broken
Well, I'm always up for a challenge. :)
Lets see if we can come up with a providence for this sign. Assume that the designer started with a standard "engraved plaque" style bathroom sign. But they felt that something bigger was called for, so they decided to make it a giant hanging sign by blowing the image up and adding a laurel leaf border around it. The braille pattern just went along for the ride. Which makes its presence funny, but not terribly broken.
Now, if there isn't a small plaque on or beside the door with proper braile markings on it, *that* would be broken. But, alas, we don't have enough context to decide that.
sfl: No, this is broken. Reread the last sentence, which says that the Braille portion "is just printed directly onto the sign; it's not embossed or raised in any way". THE BRAILLE IS FLAT. It is just dots printed on the board. even if it were presented to the blind person by gilded angels, IT CAN NOT BE READ because THEY CAN NOT SEE THE DOTS.
Other than that, this is frelling hilarious.
Definitely not broken. This sign tells us that these toilets are for men, people with a handicap and non-blind people who can read braille.
Braille for the Sighted (Beginning Braille)
http://shop.bookworms.org/aws.cgi/mode_books/search_Braille/
NBG mgr. to sign co. "I need you to design a sign for our restrooms
sign co. "Would you like braille on the signs?"
NBG mgr. "yes it never hurts to be too pc"
sign co. "o'kay that will be an extra $5 for each indention."
NBG mgr. "Extra? uh could you just print the dots on and we'll hang it so it can't be touched so there's no reason to have indentions in the sign."
sign co. "sir\ma'am that is so broken but you are paying us to do a job so you are the boss.
I wonder if the braille is even correct, the last time we had a sign with braille on it the braille wasn't correct, check here http://www.thisisbroken.com/2005/05/braille_room_nu.html
"I wonder if the braille is even correct, the last time we had a sign with braille on it the braille wasn't correct"
Actually, the Braille is correctly printed on the sign. But, like (most) everyone said thus far, it's as broken as broken could be. And by the way Cynical Bob, what would be the need to print the braille if you could just read the big letters that say "MEN"?
"I wonder if the braille is even correct, the last time we had a sign with braille on it the braille wasn't correct"
Actually, the Braille is correctly printed on the sign. But, like (most) everyone said thus far, it's as broken as broken could be. And by the way Cynical Bob, what would be the need to print the braille if you could just read the big letters that say "MEN"?
"I wonder if the braille is even correct, the last time we had a sign with braille on it the braille wasn't correct"
Actually, the Braille is correctly printed on the sign. But, like (most) everyone said thus far, it's as broken as broken could be. And by the way Cynical Bob, what would be the need to print the braille if you could just read the big letters that say "MEN"?
Not broken, just humorous. Blind people aren't going to see or touch the sign anyway, so it is meaningless to them.
As sfl said, there should be a plaque next to the door with the Braille on it. However, the post says nothing about whether or not such a plaque is next to the door, so the matter of service for blind people is unknown and thus irrelevant to this post.
The picture is broken for the purposes of this post. You cannot tell from the pciture given that this is in fact a sign hanging from the ceiling.
I don't see how this negatively affects anybody's customer experience. Can we get back to things that are *truly* broken?
Jay, it would affect my customer experience. One look at the printed braille and I would be convinced that the management of the National Botanical Gardens are a gang of blithering idiots. I wouldn't trust anything else I saw printed there, including plant identification signs and emergency exits!
And for those who say it's not broken as long as there is a plaque by the door, the original poster did say that the doors were unmarked. I agree the photo could have made that clearer.
Well... Maybe the sign was orginally ment to hang on the wall... and the specs of dots that *look* like brail are mearly decorations... how pretty!
E.T.- They're in Washington. They're PC. They are, by default, blithering idiots.
Anyway, Cynical Bob, you're an imposter and a moron. *i* am Bob, and This is Broken. What could be more broken than a braille sign, eight feet above ground, that doesn't even have raised letters?
'Blithering Idiots' is fun to say! Blithering Idiots. Tee-hee!
as a sign designer familiar with the ADA requirements, i say da thing is broken! raised letters and grade 2 braille are to be used only for identification signs at eye level - 60" to the centerline of the sign. when a sign is ceiling mounted or blade/projecting mounted, the clearance is 80" and no braille or raised letters are to be used but the letters must be a minimum of 3" high...and that's the facts jack.....
Okay, I'm going to take a stab at why it's not broken:
Perhaps local DC regulations insist that every public sign must have a braille translation. However, the regulations do not specifically require the braille to actually be raised (pointless then, I know, but just the sort of loopholes government officials are prone to). Thus, when the botanical gardens wanted to put up a nice big sign above the door, they were forced to comply with the code as written. And, being the intelligent and witty folks they are, decided it would be a nice in-joke to not raise the braille on a sign no-one could reach. Therefore, the sign is NOT broken. The poor legislation writing which created the loophole is broken.
But that's just my opinion; I could be wrong.
OK, everyone saying "not broken" are totally broken. The post says that the door is unmarked!
Unmarked as in no markings, as in no way to identify except via the giant hanging signs.
But I guess "unmarked" doesn't give us enough context...
Jay, you are a friggin idiot. If you put Braille on a sign it is for the express purpose of allowing the blind to receive information. How are they to get that information if it dangles 8 feet off the floor and is not even raised for tactile detection? Go to How stuff works.com and figure out a life
Quite understandable why this sign is broken, it's in Washington D.C., & was designed by a bureaucrat, who incidentally, also designed the Form 1040. He sits in a basement room without any windows, is an introvert & enjoys punishing people in any way he can. He laughs & murmurs to himself all the time & no one can figure it out - this is a fine example why.
>>However, the regulations do not specifically require the braille to actually be raised
Is it Braille if it is not raised? Not according to Miriam Webster:
Main Entry: braille
Pronunciation: 'brA(&)l
Function: noun
Usage: often capitalized
Etymology: Louis Braille
: a system of writing for the blind that uses characters made up of raised dots
Wow, now that is alot of posts. Its broken. However, My boss has a sign on the door of his restaurant, it reads: PUSH, if that does not work, PULL, if that does not work we are closed. He has a great sense of humor. Maybe this is an inside joke.
you know it doesn't matter to me whether it's broken or not I've got so much fun out of reading the responses that I had tears in my eyes
Thanks loads people.Bob
eh don't think any of those win the "how is it not broken contest, SFL comes the closest in explaining how it probably happened, but not how it isn't broken...
Umm If you were sighted and could read braille wouldnt the pretty much universal symbol for mens room tell you what it was without you having to remember braille and decode it
>>shalom great job I was just going to mention that technically it couldn't be considered braille but I see you beat me too it.
Again this is definetly broken but here is what I think happened the door or wall had a placard but most first time visitors had to stumble upon the restroom by accident or ask for directions. So they took the placard from the door/wall and had it enlarged so the visitors could more easily find the restroom.
Wouldn't a visually sighted person need help in locating the restroom anyway? How would they know their was a sign with braille to read anyway?
Tool,
>> How would they know their was a sign with braille to read anyway?
You have hit on a question that has been bothering me for years; how on earth can a blind person know where to "look" for braille signs? Does s/he just stick out a hand randomly and try to "read" what ever gets touched?
In this case, does s/he run a hand along the wall and, on finding a doorway, start feeling around for a sign?
This points out one of the many brain farts in the "Americans with Disabilities" act; braille signs on drive-thru windows and wheelchair-capable entrances to skating rinks are a couple of blatant others.
The “National Botanical Gardens” responds: Our restrooms are difficult for visitors to find so we have provided more than the usual number of wayfinding signs. The picture in the posting is of a temporary sign posted over the entrance to the south foyer where the restrooms are located. It is 11 x 14” and mounted from the ceiling at 8 ft. height so that it can be seen over the heads of people who congregate under it. A sign with raised Braille is posted on the wall at regulation ADA height next to the restroom door. In hindsight we should not have used a copy of the sign with the Braille lettering over the foyer door since the temporary signs were posted as an auxiliary aid for sighted people only. However, getting people to the restroom foyer was the objective and more than two million people have managed to find it. By the way, we are the U.S. Botanic Garden, and thanks to Jay and others who gave us a fair response.
so according to the post by USBG my last post hit the nail on the head. (my first post was a joke)
thanks for the feedback shalom. THe disabilities act is one of those things that you set out to please everybody to the point of it gets really stupid.
One last thing before someone blasts me for being insensitive. I understand the importance of someone with a disability to have as much independence as possible. But really in a blind situation, how would a sightless person know where to locate the sign (see Shalom's post directly above mine)
I'll take a stab at trying to explain how this is not broken:
There's always a nice and helpful guard around the bathroom that will gladly to lead your way to the proper door depending on your gender, so there's no need to read any sign.
What? No guard around?
Hmmm... then I think it is definitely and beyond stupidity, BROKEN!!
Interesting to see the USBG's response. According to their post, the doors are *not* unmarked and in fact have raised braille signs at ADA height, in which case I take back my "blithering idiots" comment. It's still pretty sloppy to print the braille on the sign, though, but this is somewhat mitigated if the sign is genuinely temporary.
Actually, I was the original poster -- and at the time I took the picture, the doors WERE unmarked. I specifically looked for other markings before taking the photo. :) I'm willing to concede the possibility that there were ADA-compliant signs that had been removed temporarily, or that I simply failed to notice signs intended for use by the blind (perhaps because I'm NOT blind, and thus not the intended demographic). But when I pointed out this amusing discrepancy to one of the staff at the gardens at the time -- who, by the way, exhibited absolutely none of the "We're the U.S. Botanical Gardens, thank you very much" attitude of this poster, for which I'm incredibly grateful *grin* -- that staffperson's response was, "Yeah, well, people have mentioned that to us before." Which leads me to believe that I was hardly the first person to notice it, OR the first person to fail to see any OTHER signage.
"I wonder if the braille is even correct"
Well... it is! The letters have a "." on the left side of then to show that it it a capital letter... to double check:
I also have to admit that I'm curious how the U.S. Botanical Garden knows that two million people have managed to find their men's room. I used it myself while there and didn't recall seeing a counter or passing through a turnstile. The alternatives -- that they've got invisible sensors tracking restroom guests, or that somebody stands outside counting, or that they're filming their restroom doors -- are as creepy as they're unlikely. So I'm going to assume that the USBG rep here is estimating men's room use based on their total door tickets, the alternative being unnerving. :)
That said, anonymous USBG person, I'm just ribbing you. I'd probably be ticked, too, if I dropped by a site and saw a bunch of people ragging on incompetent Washington bureaucracies based on one inconsequential "temporary" sign that may or may not have been backed up by perfectly functional signage somewhere else. And I might even be more ticked if a casual visitor had the nerve to call you the National Botanical Gardens, when you're clearly only a single garden for the United States, albeit still a botanical one. :) If you drop me a line, I'll buy you a drink next time in D.C. and you can vent about annoying tourists with digital cameras.
I vote that the Braille is broken. The sign is only broken if it was intended provide guidance for the blind. If not, the broken Braille is extraneous content that does not affect function.
Actually they could make a reasonable estimate of the number of people who used it based on the supplies consumed.
shalom blathers: "This points out one of the many brain farts in the "Americans with Disabilities" act; braille signs on drive-thru windows and wheelchair-capable entrances to skating rinks are a couple of blatant others."
I've walked up to a drive-through ATM. And the Braille is for those who take a taxi or get a relative or friend to drive them to the ATM. (Why not have the driver do it? I wouldn't give my ATM card to a taxi driver if I couldn't see what s/he's doing with it.)
As for the wheelchair ramps, how about a disabled parent taking his kids skating?
The only "brain farts" here are shalom's.
Temporary or not, it's still consequential if people used it while it was up. This sign is still broken, however if the doors were marked then less so. The braille becomes stupid instead of broken, but i do not withdraw my 'blithering idiots' second either way.
Thanks D.F.
Of course, ADA has its fair share of potential for silly applications. Many more times though it's the short sightedness and lack of creativity of the "able" that makes them seem incredible.
"Actually they could make a reasonable estimate of the number of people who used it based on the supplies consumed." -loren p.
This is the Men's room, I think those fancy supply thingies you're talkin about only go to the ladies room.
Temporary Braille = Broken
Of course it wasn't broken! The text wasn't white!
Besides, it could have been for those people who can't read "Men" but can read it in braille
Don't they teach braille before English in elementary schools now?
As a person who is legally blind, here's how you find the braille plates--they are usually contrasted to the wall/door and there are standard placements for them. Most blind people actually do have some vision.
>>And the Braille is for those who take a taxi or
>>get a relative or friend to drive them to the
>>ATM. (Why not have the driver do it? I wouldn't
>>give my ATM card to a taxi driver if I couldn't
>>see what s/he's doing with it.)
For this to work, you'd need large, high-contrast digits on the screen to indicate the amounts and instructions to the blind people.
@Robert - Thanks, I've always wondered how blind people find signs like that. But what about people who have absolutely zero vision (say, maybe they lost both eyes in a classic "Put that down, you'll put an eye out!" situation)
Not only could this sign be a hinderance to the blind (nonstandard placement, minimal contrast to the area), but if someone had a chronic neck or back problem,they might not be able to look up to see the sign.
Comments on this entry are closed
Previous: Bad parking in Yahoo lot | Main | Next: San Francisco traffic sign
Wow. Now THAT'S broken.
Posted by: Jello B. at July 20, 2005 12:36 AM