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Previous: Blue notepads | Main | Next: Microsoft Word read-only document
May 9, 2005 12:02 AM
Broken: Braille room number
Jeff Pierce writes:
While staying at the Contemporary Resort in Disney World last year, we spotted this. While walking down the hall on our way from our room to the main lobby, my nine year old - who had just learned to read Braille - pointed to the room sign and said, "See, that's Braille. The first symbol tells you it's a number and... wait a minute. IT'S WRONG!" he shouted. For readers of Braille, there are two rooms numbered 7304 at the Contemporary.
[Sure enough... check here. -mh]
Am I the only one here to expect comments along the line of "hey, this isn't broken, blind people are broken!"?
actually, you don't even have to know how to read braille to know its wrong, on the plaque, the first and last numbers match, on the braille, their different! Soooo broken!
a2800276, it doesn't really make sense to say that because the sign is in fact broken. Thank God for key cards or else someone would be very unhappy when a stranger let themselves into the wrong room. Very, very broken.
I've always had a question about braille, namely, how do blind people find the braille on the signs unless someone leads them to it?
I can't imagine anyone walks around trying to read everything on a wall. Ninety-nine percent of the time, I'd suppose it would be easier to ask someone, particularly at a hotel.
Anyone know if Braille on signs actually helps the blind?
Tom I agree completely, I was having a discussion about this the other day,
Why don't you see blind people with their arms out each side (like pretending to be a plane) reading the brail?
Tom, I always wondered that, too. The signs aren't usually in the same places, and that's a lot of wall space to search just in case there's a sign in braile. I'm all for the signs, but there should be some sort of standarization to their placements. All though, I think they're there mostly to show how sensitive the hotel is, not for actual usage. Most blind people don't really need them, anyway.
1] Some clarification. Blind people are a subset of 'visually-impaired', and this is the relevant term here. This is not merely PC; visually-impaired people can still see, but may not be able to see very well.
2] "The signs aren't usually in the same places, and that's a lot of wall space to search just in case there's a sign in braile."
They don't scan blank walls any more than you try to read blank walls. You find the sign, then read it.
BTW, room signs tend to be on doors or next to doors on the right side, at about eye level. No biggie.
Regardless of HOW they find the sign (even if it's with help), they can now return to their room with perfect confidence and without any assistance.
DaveC426913, since you seem to be so knowledgeable on the subject, it is one thing to say the signs are usually on the right, at eye level to the doors, and that is why the visually impaired can find the signs no problem, how do they know where the doors are? Wouldn't they still have to "scan" the walls until they found a door the same way someone suggested they'd have to scan the walls to find the signs?
Disclaimer: I am not a blind person.
But a blind person can use a cane to tap the walls to discover where the door is. They can run their hand down the wall to find a door. Or they can use a clicker or a general good sense of hearing to tell when the adjacent "wall" changes to "door." It's really quite amazing what subtlties you can pick up just using your hearing.
Oh, it's also quite possible the visually impared person might ask at the desk, "Can you tell me exactly where my room is," and then, after arriving at the door, double check to make sure it's the right door. Blind ain't dumb.
Blind folks are incredibly resourceful. Also, thir memories adn ability to learn is just as good as sighted people. We don't look at the ceiling or floor, or the bottom or top of walls to fid signs, we assume from past experience that signs are generally somewhere in the general eye level area. This cuts the area needing to be searched to a small bar between 5-6 above the floor. Also, signs are generallt on ro by the door, meaning they need only feel an even smaller area for the sign.
As to if the signs help, they do indeed. I was in a building recently and a blind gent was already in the elevator, and I asked him to hold the doors as I tried to catch it. I made it in time, and he asked me which floor, and hit the right button by feeling the braille rather quickly (especially since he'd just had to hit his floor's button too). So a blind guy helped a completely sighted person catch and ride an elevator. :)
O.K. I've waited a long time to make this comment! Relative to Braille signs, can anyone tell me why a bank would have braille placards on a "drive-thru" ATM? I am constantly puzzled by this in my local area!
There's a very simple reason why there is Braille on the keypads of drive-through ATMs: It would be prohibitively expensive to manufacture a few ATMs without the Braille.
Tom Linko, the reason why they have braille at the drive through ATM is three-fold.
1st. They use the same ATM machines regardless of installation location. It would be much more expensive to make two different types of machines one with braille and one without than just to include the braille on them all.
2nd. Blind people take cabs, so there is the chance that they could be riding as a passenger and use an ATM.
3rd. American Disabilities act. If you are a company/government organization over a certain size, you are required to offer the same experience to people regardless of disability. There are exemptions, but I can tell you from my architecture background, that a ramp at the side of the building is not ADA compliant, because just because someone can get to the same door, the way they get there is different, therefore you're segregating one group of people.
I have moved out of the architecture field to website design/information architecture about 10 years ago, but some of the same issues still occur. I did the design / information architecture for a county government. One of the requirements of the specs were that all information is attainable regardless of physical limitations. Essentially all the images have descriptive alt tags, we also embedded an anchored link that essentially says click to bypass menu. What this does is as the screen reader is reading the content, gives a non sighted individual the ability to bypass the home/services/about etc. on the page and jump to the content.
At the time we designed the site Section 508 went into effect requiring ADA compliance for all federal websites, there was talk that it would eventually be required for all sites that receive federal money as well.
Sadly, the redesign of the site was awarded to another firm, and the requirement of information for non sighted visitors was removed. The new project lead is not concerned with a small segment of the population not being able to receive information from the government. That line of thinking is really broken.
Tom, for a more complete answer to your question (about braille on drive-up ATM's) -- see http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a4_010.html
Short answer: It's a federal requirement. Best reason: Allows the visually-impaired to use the machines without the assistance of the driver (e.g., a taxi driver).
ADA is kind of harsh on sidewalks though. Any sidewalk contruction over $10,000 in my area requires ADA certification, and if it is off by one degree, it has to be ripped up and redone.
Not only can they use canes or assistance from the front desk, a lot have guide dogs. The dogs will know which door to go to so that the blind person does not have to feel around the walls.
But yes, this is broken and as someone mentioned, if it weren't for the key card....
" The dogs will know which door to go to so that the blind person does not have to feel around the walls."
wait... wtf? the dog will know what door to go to in a hotel its never been to before... is it just me or is that statement broken?
Yeah I read that statement too and was wondering how the dog would know where to go. If there is a dog like that, it could make the owner very rich!
faery -
US Currency actually can be differentiated by the "grain" of the paper. Each denomination has the grain running a different direction.
In addition, the printing process used leaves an impression in the paper that can be felt as well.
Anyone who has lost one of their senses will tell you that they experience heightened abilities in the remaining senses to help compensate. Blind people can usually smell, hear and feel things that those of us with sight can not detect.
I knew a blind cashier at a county government cafeteria, and he would feel the bill, and verify the denomination, with 90-95% accuracy. He could tell what was on your tray by the smell. And he knew the cash register (This was pre-ADA, early 90's, and the register had traditional buttons). The only thing I had to do was verify what my purchase was, and read the total. I would hand him my money, and he would give me change back.
I have a friend with one arm (I know this is a discussion of blind people, but hey). He's a camera guy and web designer, and kicks ass at counter-strike.
Some of his best camera shots stem from him only having one arm. He can lean and support himself in ways that would be very painful (or impossible) if there was an arm in the way, and he has great stability because he's had to carry so many things with just one hand and no other arm to wave around for balance or open doors. It's like he has a built in steady-cam.
Talk about enhanced senses! Coordination and balance is a very hard sense to master.
Cashier that was 90-95% accurate? Somehow, I don't think that would cut it. I'd give a disabled (Differently abled? I'm not sure what the current PC term is) some slack, but getting the change wrong 5-10% of the time would certainly call for a different position!
Dragon, don't be rude. I'm talking about ONCE THE DOG has been shown where to go, it knows where to go afterwards. The hotel staff would initially point the blind person to their room.
Maybe you are broken.
i wasnt being mean, but hey, what you mean and what you say are two different things. By the way you made that statement almost no one would pick up on "After having been shown where the room was the dog would be able to find it"
"funny, the ADA doesn't include dollars. coins are separable by size. what about the dollars?"
Canadian bills now have braile imprinted in them :)
When are you guys gonna get with the program!
Multi-coloured cash, with braille and cool security features, as well as peotry, is the best type of cash, evidently.
JW- blind people can't drive, so they couldn't have the same ATM Drive-Thru Experience as everybody else anyway. does the ADA still apply?
Faolan - once the blind person has been shown where the room is, they also know where to go, so no need for the dog. That being said, it's amazing what seeing-eye dogs are capable of, and it wouldn't suprise me if they could be trained to rudimentarily recognize numbers.
I recently took a cognitive psychology class, and there was a guest speaker who was designing products for visually impaired people. He gave us some statistics, which were either for Canada or North America. I can't quite remember.
Less than 2.5% of the population is visually impaired. Less than 10% of that group can not see at all. So the group of people without any vision whatsoever is very small.
So there are plenty of visually impaired people who would be able to see that the room number is on the wall, but can't actually make out what that number is without the use of braille.
If you go to the Marriott Residence Inn in Plano TX, check this out:
The gatehouse has a gas fireplace. There is a sign on it: "Caution: Hot surface".
With the Braille underneath.
New to the site. 1st. I used to teach at a school for the visually impaired. Their hearing is superb and use a technique called echo-location. It's like hearing sounds boucing off of things, like a form of radar, so after a short time, they can differentaite between walls, doors, etc. . . Also, We used to teach to fold money differnently according to the denomination, so as far as retrieving the cash, it's no problem.
A little off topic, but...
I used to sell lightbulbs for the blind. But apperantly they were really good lightglobes.
THAT is broken.
"If you go to the Marriott Residence Inn in Plano TX, check this out:
The gatehouse has a gas fireplace. There is a sign on it: "Caution: Hot surface".
With the Braille underneath."
Now that is broken for sure..
and regarding Jello B's comment about light bulbs for the blind.. You have to remember that some people that are legally blind can still see somewhat... they may have stigmatism or something else or only have partial vision loss...
Infinity, you are 100% correct. "blind" doesn't always mean they can't see anything. Actually it's visual acuity of 20/200 or worse OR a visual field of 30 degrees or less after correction.
While I don't have vision problems I know quite a bit about blind people as my mother was blind. Several points:
Their echolocation can be very good if their hearing is intact. My mother told me that when she was a child she could run along areas with curbs--she could hear where they were. That ability faded with age, in her old age she couldn't accurately track across a familiar room even. Growing up being aware of it I learned it to a very rudimentary degree--I used to be able to sense something in front of me if I clicked my tongue and walked slowly--while I could trip on something I would never walk into a wall or the like. I've got enough high frequency hearing loss now that it's useless but I still sometimes unconciously click when I'm trying to walk in the dark and I'm not sure where I am.
Also, there's an ultrasonic ranging device made for blind people. It would be quite capable of picking up the sign on the wall as well as picking out the doorway. A skilled operator supposedly can find a quarter on the floor with it in short range (max 1 meter) mode but my mother was never that good. (Age probably had something to do with that.) (Note that my knowledge is about 15 years out of date by now, maybe the equipment has improved.)
Blind people do use lightbulbs. After all, they might have sighted guests. There's also those who have limited vision. I knew a blind guy in college who could actually read. Maybe 15 seconds per letter and he had to hold the material about 1 inch from his eyes. Handwriting was out of the question, he could only read reasonably large type.
I do agree that currency is a problem. My mother could normally tell apart new currency but not beat-up stuff. She had different ways of folding it so she always knew what she had but she had to trust the clerk to be honest in giving her change.
"She had different ways of folding it so she always knew what she had but she had to trust the clerk to be honest in giving her change."
I would be VERY disappointed if anyone would take advantage of a blind person like that.
I know this is an old thread, but I wanted to offer my comment about how guide dogs find places.
Basically, a sighted person or a person who has a dog already familiar with the area needs to show the new dog and their owner around. I used to do this for my university for the visually impaired students (one of whom had a *guide pony*.) It was amazing; I had been given a map of where I was supposed to take them - the official paths between buildings - but I'd later run into some of the students I'd guided finding their own path. They could figure it out just the way a sighted person does after becoming familiar with an area.
Mink o' War: funny, the ADA doesn't include dollars. coins are separable by size. what about the dollars?"
Canadian bills now have braile imprinted in them :)
When are you guys gonna get with the program!
Multi-coloured cash, with braille and cool security features, as well as peotry, is the best type of cash, evidently.
******
At least the US now has our big bills marked in BIG NUMBERS on the back.
****
William: "She had different ways of folding it so she always knew what she had but she had to trust the clerk to be honest in giving her change."
I would be VERY disappointed if anyone would take advantage of a blind person like that.
*****
I have been taken advatage of like that before. :( At least my friend was paying attention. "Hey Bob--that's not a twenty he gave ya...its a five."
It can and does happen.
I need to know who prints advertising in Braille in Australia? Do any of you know? I know a blind lady that goes to the gym and uses all the equiptment and also does the classes, eg, yoga and body pump (dancing) and she knows all the moves. that is truely amszing to watch as she only has 1% vision. Please help me.
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That's really quite sad. I'd expect more from a major company like that.
Posted by: Jesse Smith at May 9, 2005 12:52 AM