The problem with "some"

Not sure I agree here. I see this more as evading accuracy with a little, ok, pretense. To me, this word choice reads as 'can you believe as many as 16 months altogether.'

@peter - I'd be fine with emphasizing the length of time; but using "some" calls the duration itself into question. Maybe "an astounding sixteen months"? :)

I think this use of "some" is useful. It's used to indicate the number is not exact, in the same way as "almost," "just about," "a little over," etc. "Some" does sound smarter and it's short. I like it.

That's exactly my pet peeve: it *sounds* smarter... without actually *being* smarter. In fact, since many readers don't see it as an equivalent to "about" or "around" (see Peter's comment above), it actually obfuscates meaning rather than illuminating it. Just my $0.02.

I think the usage here is an emphatic flavoring particle, not intended to imply any defect in accuracy. Your "astounding" would be an okay substitute, but I think it would be a little over the top. "Some" in the context is meant to emphasize but not to the point of amazement.

As maybe reinforcement to my previous comment, see definition #4 in the Mac dictionary: "a considerable amount or number"; it follows with an example in the vein you quoted from the New Yorker.

This is really interesting. Is "some" being used for emphasis (i.e. a smaller version of "astounding"), or for accuracy (i.e. a smarter-sounding version of "about")?

If readers don't know what the word is intended to mean, the usage is in question.

To your comment, I think (as in most cases with language) the context disambiguates. I've never heard "some" followed by a specific number to indicate inaccuracy--the specific number/amount is the clue that the meaning is emphatic rather than an expression of confidence in the number. That's what clued me in, anyways. :)

Of course, there's nothing to stop someone from abusing this usage, but surely in the case of the New Yorker, they know what they're doing and mean it as the emphatic.

Ah, the joys of the written word. :o)

@ambrose - OK, but I'm still wondering: how long was the house arrest? Did the article tell us exactly or approximately?

This usage does not bother me. I guess I am lucky to be unaffected by such things.

So true. Those who have "the allergy" can tell you that it never goes away :) That's one reason it's such a pleasure to read the New Yorker - it's rare to come across anything that irritates the allergy.

Sixteen months. We don't know any more specific than that, but it (IMO) wasn't meant as "maybe sixteen or seventeen or fifteen" months but rather "he spent sixteen months under arrest, that's no short time." That's what I think, anyhoo.

Fun topic. I guess that means I have "the allergy."

Some would say that what defines a pet peeve is heightened sensitivity. Others are not bothered as much by the same stimulus.

My experience reading this was to smile at each response.

"Some" can mean "considerable" or "a considerable amount," which is the case in the example cited. "Pinochet spent some sixteen months under house arrest" should be read as, "Pinochet spent a considerable sixteen months under house arrest." It is a rather powerful (and, in this commenter's opinion, rather nice) modifier, as it gives gravity to the number cited. "Some sixteen months" is perceptually longer and different than simply "sixteen months."

The fact that the author of this post sees "some" as an indication of ambiguity points to a lack of semantic knowledge rather than a clever discovery of pretentious fact-obscurance.

I believe Ambrose little provides the answer in the definition of the word "some" as a 'considerable amount or number'. If there is any imprecision to the number sixteen, it is certainly inconsequential here. I think you will find when you look into the matter more thoroughly (as of course you must do) you will find that the usage is not pretentious. By all means please let us know!

I agree that specific language is something to strive for, but sounding pretentious is fine by me as long as it is not condescending. As I read it, this is a case of author admitting that they don't have all the facts, which is more self-effacing and honest than anything. Using "some" also suggests that it's the magnitude of the number, not the precise number that is significant. It seems your assuming that people don't understand the usage of "some" is a condescending stance. Tangential (and perhaps unrelated) to this could be that taking issue with the use of more casual language in a publication is a criticism that a "professional" writer might direct towards an "amateur" writing on the web, which makes this pet peeve seem reactionary, coming from someone writing on the web. But, I write this all with the intention of resolving this issue and to decide whether I too should have the same pet peeve, and since I'm writing, I'd like to let you knoe that I really love all your emails & ideas, please keep them coming!

When "some" is used in this way, I always read it as adding emphasis.

M-W defines "some" as "remarkable, striking" as it's third definition of "some."

@Morgan - my comments are hardly meant to be condescending, as I count myself among the readers who wonder what the phrase means. Even among all these thoughtful comments we have no consensus as to whether the duration in question is exact-but-emphasized or merely approximated-in-a-smart-sounding-way.

@Lacy - that "remarkable, striking" definition seems to me to refer to a different usage: "Man oh man, that was some Super Bowl!" ... and not emphasizing a number, like "he ate some five hotdogs for lunch."

"some x" is just as redundant as "It should be noted".

I delete the latter whenever I find it in a Wikipedia article; I haven't seen "some x" nearly as often there.

If some words sound smarter than others but *everyone* knows they mean the same thing (some vs. almost, maybe vs. perhaps), then IMHO it's hardly the kind of affectation that one needs to get ruffled about -- unlike, for example, using a two-bit word specifically to differentiate yourself from people whose lack of education makes them literally unable to understand you.

What you see as pretentious I see simply as a different sense of style. "Some" is, perhaps, like having brass buttons on your blue sport coat -- it sends a signal of wealth but doesn't actually cost more. It's not like wearing a $10,000 tailored suit.

Now I am wondering if "a considerable amount" is pretentious. :-)

Well, at least they keep the spell check on and don't prentends otherwise.

However you phrase it and depending on the circumstances, sixteen months (give or take one) can seem like long time indeed. But style's important, too, and Mark's got it.

Good writing isn't only about clarity, it's also about beauty. The sentence with "some" has a much more pleasant rhythm and balance to it. It's more stylish, and one of the things The New Yorker is noted for is style.

Even worse is the misuse of "certain", as in "a certain number of people will object" or "a certain degree of error can be expected" -- wherein "certain" really means "uncertain".